Ideas/Things to add to Mari0

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renhoek
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 16:55

Okay I'm going to make a quick list on why I think achievements are a bad idea.

1. They can easily be modified in the map file so you can easily cheat.
2. What's the point, Achievements work on steam and consoles because it's an online connectivity thing where you can show all your friends that you beat super hard mod in meat bot in less than 5 minutes.
3. there'd have to be a locking mechanism for the achievements which is probably more trouble than it's worth.
4. people can easily go into the level editor and create whatever requirements the achievements need.
5. Achievements would not add anything to the map.
6. Most of the achievements will most likely be appear again in another map.
7. They'd most likely be "kill this amount of x" instead of real milestones.

and the biggest reason.

8. Maurice said no, stop being entitled brats.
Seriously I have not seen one good reason outside of "they's coolz"

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SauloFX
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 17:01

renhoek wrote:Okay I'm going to make a quick list on why I think achievements are a bad idea.

1. They can easily be modified in the map file so you can easily cheat. Yea,but it wouldn't cause bad things to anyone
2. What's the point, Achievements work on steam and consoles because it's an online connectivity thing where you can show all your friends that you beat super hard mod in meat bot in less than 5 minutes. You're actually right,but it's just for fun,not to say:" wow i'm super duper awesome! i Finished the tutorial level and won an achivement!"
3. there'd have to be a locking mechanism for the achievements which is probably more trouble than it's worth. Yea,it would be hard.
4. people can easily go into the level editor and create whatever requirements the achievements need.I think you said that in number 1
5. Achievements would not add anything to the map. JUST FOR FUN!
6. Most of the achievements will most likely be appear again in another map. That's why achivements should be toggled one time
7. They'd most likely be "kill this amount of x" instead of real milestones. Find Eastereggs,Reach impossible places,joke achivements...

and the biggest reason.

8. Maurice said no, stop being entitled brats.Actually,when Maurice says no,he really means no.
Seriously I have not seen one good reason outside of "they's coolz"

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Jorichi
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 17:11

Okay SauloFX, stop trying. Your arguments are getting you nowhere.
Achievements won't be worth shit. It would be just another pop-up telling you that you have no life.
And if you really do have a fetish for achievements; Slap a Post-it note on the screen with "Achievement unlocked!" written on it and blurt out a loud "YEAH!".
Your parents will sure be proud of that accomplishment.

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SauloFX
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 17:25

Ok Jorichi,i was just explaining,but i will do achivements with animations,it would be more simple.

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:02

My turn:
renhoek wrote:Okay I'm going to make a quick list on why I think achievements are a bad idea.

1. They can easily be modified in the map file so you can easily cheat.
Again, what's the point of unlock them on the map file if you get nothing for it? No cheats unlocked, no prize, nothing?

2. What's the point, Achievements work on steam and consoles because it's an online connectivity thing where you can show all your friends that you beat super hard mod in meat bot in less than 5 minutes.
Achievements, for me, where always a good excuse to play a game again. For example, in Portal 2 I unlocked achievements just for the fun of it, not to show to others...

3. there'd have to be a locking mechanism for the achievements which is probably more trouble than it's worth.
You mean so you can't get achievements twice? Piece of cake! I made it already in my mod, why couldn't Maurice? As I said, just make it so the game saves the unlocked achievements on the mappack folder (or in options.txt, I don't know). It's not hard AT ALL...

4. people can easily go into the level editor and create whatever requirements the achievements need.
Again (again), what's the point of unlock them on editor if you get nothing for it? No cheats unlocked, no prize, nothing? They're there just for the fun of it...

5. Achievements would not add anything to the map.
Would be a good thing to players to replay your mappack. In my Blue Portals mappack there are a few achievements I added and, when I finish the mappack, they will unlock a whole new world (or worlds) of new tests. They add fun for it, to make you try something different in a mappack. For example, in a puzzle mappack, you just solve the tests and keep going. With achievements, you'd have to do more than this: you'd have to do crazy, funny, unexpected things for the fun of getting them.

6. Most of the achievements will most likely be appear again in another map.
If the mappack author is creative enough, no, it won't...

7. They'd most likely be "kill this amount of x" instead of real milestones.
Again, that depends on what mappack authors decided to do. If they're creative enough and work better on their mappacks, they can make achievements to make the mappack have a whole new experience.


and the biggest reason.

8. Maurice said no, stop being entitled brats.
Maurice said he'd never release betas for Mari0 SE. This proves he can change his mind...

Seriously I have not seen one good reason outside of "they's coolz"
What about "They're fun"? There's no point of having, for example, mappacks. You don't get anything for playing them, other than simply and only the FUN of playing it. Achievements, as I said, would just do it as well. They'd be as useful as having a mappack: depending on what the author does, it can be a piece of shit, but can be one of the best things from this community...

One last thing: I'm not saying players are OBLIGATED to beat achievements, or mappack makers to HAVE to add them. The fun of the achievements is that they are just a fun, optional feature...

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TurretBot
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:09

I think Renhoek is thinking of global achievements.
Pretty sure you want it on a per mappack basis.

Some of Renhoek's arguments are silly considering this.
However, I do agree... We don't really need achievements at the moment.

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:11

Yes, I was talking about per-mappack achievements. And no, I'm pretty sure, by self experience, that they wouldn't be hard to implement... Also, it's not a necessity, it's just an extra feature for the fun of it...

EDIT: Also, I'm not requesting them. I'm also not saying they MUST make it in the next update. Maurice is pretty busy already, so, if he decides to add achievements, he can do it when he feels like :)

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HansAgain
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:13

Completely agreed with Hugo.
Games like Achievement Unlocked and its sequels would be nothing without achievement, i'm not saying that Mari0 NEEDS achievements, it's just that, in good hands, it would be awesome (imagine Baf putting achievements on Super 0'Brothers).

Camewel
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:14

renhoek wrote:Okay I'm going to make a quick list on why I think achievements puzzles are a bad idea.

1. They can easily be modified in the map file so you can easily cheat.
2. What's the point, Achievements puzzles work on steam and consoles because it's an online connectivity thing where you can show all your friends that you beat super hard mod in meat bot in less than 5 minutes mappack.
3. there'd have to be a locking mechanism for the achievements mappacks which is probably more trouble than it's worth. (honestly what does this point mean)
4. people can easily go into the level editor and create whatever requirements the achievements puzzles need.
5. Achievements Puzzles would not add anything to the map.
6. Most of the achievements puzzles will most likely be appear again in another map.
7. They'd most likely be "kill this amount of x" "bring that box there" instead of real milestones puzzles.

Seriously I have not seen one good reason outside of "they's coolz"
Jorichi wrote:Okay SauloFX, stop trying. Your arguments are getting you nowhere.
Achievements Puzzles won't be worth shit. It would be just another pop-up level telling you that you have no life.
And if you really do have a fetish for achievements puzzles; Slap a Post-it note on the screen with "Achievement unlocked!" "Puzzle Completed!" written on it and blurt out a loud "YEAH!".
Your parents will sure be proud of that accomplishment.
all your arguments work for "no more puzzles" so clearly your arguments are dumb sorry
some of them don't make sense but to be fair some of the originals didn't make sense

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:16

Hans1998 wrote:Completely agreed with Hugo.
Games like Achievement Unlocked and its sequels would be nothing without achievement, i'm not saying that Mari0 NEEDS achievements, it's just that, in good hands, it would be awesome (imagine Baf putting achievements on Super 0'Brothers).
You know, I was just thinking about it. Imagine achievements in Baf's mappack. That's be incredibly awesome! He has good hands for mappacks, so I'm sure he'd know what he's doing. And we have several other good mappack-makers here as well, so why not?

EDIT: +1 camewel

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TurretBot
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 18:51

here's hugo's reason why we should have puzzles
not sure if this really has an impact on the argument but hey why not
Renhoek, HugoBDesigner, and Camewel wrote:Okay I'm going to make a quick list on why I think achievements puzzles are a bad idea.

1. They can easily be modified in the map file so you can easily cheat.
Again, what's the point of unlock beat them on the map file if you get nothing for it? No cheats unlocked, no prize, nothing?

2. What's the point, Achievements puzzles work on steam and consoles because it's an online connectivity thing where you can show all your friends that you beat super hard mod in meat bot in less than 5 minutes mappack.
Achievements Puzzles, for me, where always a good excuse to play a game again. For example, in Portal 2 I unlocked achievements completed puzzles just for the fun of it, not to show to others...

3. there'd have to be a locking mechanism for the achievements mappacks which is probably more trouble than it's worth. (honestly what does this point mean)
You mean so you can't get achievements beat puzzles twice? Piece of cake! I made it already in my mod, why couldn't Maurice? As I said, just make it so the game saves the unlocked achievements completed levels on the mappack folder (or in options.txt, I don't know). It's not hard AT ALL...

4. people can easily go into the level editor and create whatever requirements the achievements puzzles need.
Again (again), what's the point of unlock beat them on editor if you get nothing for it? No cheats unlocked, no prize, nothing? They're there just for the fun of it...

5. Achievements Puzzles would not add anything to the map.
Would be a good thing to players to replay your mappack. In my Blue Portals mappack there are a few achievements puzzles I added and, when I finish the mappack, they will unlock a whole new world (or worlds) of new tests. They add fun for it, to make you try something different in a mappack. For example, in a puzzle a Mario mappack, you just solve the tests beat the levels and keep going. With achievements puzzles, you'd have to do more than this: you'd have to do crazy, funny, unexpected things for the fun of getting beating them.

6. Most of the achievements puzzles will most likely be appear again in another map.
If the mappack author is creative enough, no, it won't...

7. They'd most likely be "kill this amount of x" "bring that box there" instead of real milestones puzzles.
Again, that depends on what mappack authors decided to do. If they're creative enough and work better on their mappacks, they can make achievements puzzles to make the mappack have a whole new experience.

Seriously I have not seen one good reason outside of "they's coolz"
What about "They're fun"? There's no point of having, for example, mappacks achievements. You don't get anything for playing getting them, other than simply and only the FUN of playing getting it. Achievements Puzzles, as I said, would just do it as well. They'd be as useful as having a mappack achievements: depending on what the author does, it can be a piece of shit, but can be one of the best things from this community...

One last thing: I'm not saying players are OBLIGATED to beat achievements puzzles, or mappack makers to HAVE to add them. The fun of the achievements puzzles is that they are just a fun, optional feature mappack design...
[/quote]

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Sky
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:00

Analogy error: In most cases puzzles are required to advance in a mappack, whereas achievements are not.

Camewel
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:07

WillWare wrote:Analogy error: In most cases puzzles are required to advance in a mappack, whereas achievements are not.
so, given that they aren't forced on the player, that's actually a plus one to achievements
all in favour of replacing all puzzles with achievements?

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TurretBot
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:14

Camewel wrote:
WillWare wrote:Analogy error: In most cases achievements are required to advance in a mappack, whereas achievements are not.
so, given that they aren't forced on the player, that's actually a plus one to achievements
all in favour of replacing all achievements with achievements?
okay

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Jorichi
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:19

Camewel wrote: all your arguments work for "no more puzzles" so clearly your arguments are dumb sorry
some of them don't make sense but to be fair some of the originals didn't make sense
I don't get it. At all.
Are you saying that an achievement is equal to a puzzle? Because it isn't and I assumed you knew that...
An achievement is a verification of a milestone. This can be anything. When put to good use it would blow new life into a game.
But in this case (mappacks) it will end up in mind-numbing achievements like "kill 1337 goomba's with koopa shells" and other things like that which wouldn't really add experience.
And if you want achievements that really do feel like achieving something you'd have to go pretty far out of your way into coding that in. It's simply not worth it, especially if you want them to be customizable to every mappack.
Besides, a secret or bonus (which you can make yourself with the editor) could be added just as well to replace that as a reward to the player. To be honest, finding a secret or an easteregg in a game is so much more rewarding to me then a freaking pop-up congratulating me on what I just did.
So I'd say; get creative and add secrets and eastereggs, and hide them well.

Be honest: What would you like to see more?
1. A pop-up saying "Achievement #14 unlocked: Reached the top of the tower".
2. Or a sign pointing down on the middle of the tower. You stand there and press 'down', suddenly Mario goes down as if going through a pipe and: Secret level/minigame!
Just be more creative and you can make much better rewards for a player then a pop-up.

And I'd be more up for something that would allow mapmakers to create unlockable characters upon clearing the mappack or something similar.

But seriously, if you can give me a concrete reason why Achievements are that much more rewarding then an easter egg or secret, please do.

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TurretBot
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:26

An easter egg or secret usually means lives, which can easily be lost. Achievements, being not part of the game, you can keep them.
The only thing that bonus areas provide besides that is a shortcut to a later part of the level.
(Yeah that's mediocre I know.)

EDIT: such is the story of my life, ignored again :(
Last edited by TurretBot on 29 Mar 2014, 19:46, edited 2 times in total.

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:27

We are not saying that Achievements are better than Easter Eggs, nor asking users to replace Easter Eggs by them. Why can't them work together? I've seen so many games with both, and they don't "ruin" the game experience. With the tools Maurice gave us to work on with Mari0, we are almost creating entire new games within Mari0. But what you'd said made me think: achievements could, in fact, unlock things. Unlockable characters or levels could work very well... It's not a matter of "which thing rewards the player more". It's a matter of "how much fun can you add to a mappack by using each thing". If Achievements weren't useful/fun, games wouldn't have them at all, right?

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HansAgain
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:29

Jorichi wrote:But seriously, if you can give me a concrete reason why Achievements are that much more rewarding then an easter egg or secret, please do.
Well, think that you found the Borealis in Portal 2, that's it, you found it, so what? Nothing. Then in co-op mode, you catch that falling cube on your first attempt, good for you, keep playing.

Then Blue Portals mappack, you found a way to go back to the starting zone, why did you do that? that was useless!

I think you get my point.

There are games where you gain an achievement when you find an Easter Egg, just saying.

EDIT: Also i was thinking about taking advantage of that "level X-5 thing" to give a code to open a ZIP given with the mappack to unlock a character or something.

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Jorichi
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:39

HugoBDesigner wrote:If Achievements weren't useful/fun, games wouldn't have them at all, right?
They got implemented for bragging rights. Bragging rights holds little value in Mari0. I'm saying I'd prefer to be given a reward in the form of a special experience within game.

Tying them together would still seem like the achievements are excessive. It would still be a pop-up telling you the same thing. Basically telling you you unlocked a secret or saw an easter egg.
Hans1998 wrote:
Jorichi wrote:But seriously, if you can give me a concrete reason why Achievements are that much more rewarding then an easter egg or secret, please do.
There are games where you gain an achievement when you find an Easter Egg, just saying.
And what does the Achievement itself make it more worth then the easter egg itself?
Ofcourse the easter egg or secret has to hold its own value, and that's UP TO YOU to create for your players. The options are endless.
What is the achievement ITSELF that makes it so special that makes you guys fight for it? I simply don't see its value.

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HansAgain
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:45

Jorichi wrote: What is the achievement ITSELF that makes it so special that makes you guys fight for it? I simply don't see its value.
It's like a diploma.
Hugo said, it would allow replayability.
If Portal 2 didn't have achievements, there would be no reason to replaying it but "just for fun".
Tell me, have you ever fought to get an achievement?

EDIT: I've just written it "just for fun", why this can't be a good reason, people doesn't play a game because they will gain money or something, they play games JUST FOR FUN.
Last edited by HansAgain on 29 Mar 2014, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:47

Well, technically speaking, like Hans said, achievements have no value in Portal 2, for example. You get nothing but a pop-up message when you, for example, find the Borealis. Or when you find Caroline's portrait. Or when that's the part where he kills you. Nothing but a pop-up message. People still love it, find it very fun, and make effort to complete them. Again, Achievements aren't a necessity, it's just a good excuse to make something very different than you should in a game. And they are like this, and it works, so why not?

Isn't the simple fact of playing a puzzle map something just for fun? You get no reward after playing a mappack, but you do it anyway, because of the fun of doing it. You get no reward after completing an achievement, but you do it anyway, because of the fun of doing it. Even if people on Steam, for example, do it to show others, isn't it still fun to make them? Isn't it worth it a feature?

EDIT:
Hans1998 wrote:
Jorichi wrote: What is the achievement ITSELF that makes it so special that makes you guys fight for it? I simply don't see its value.
It's like a diploma.
Hugo said, it would allow replayability.
If Portal 2 didn't have achievements, there would be no reason to replaying it but "just for fun".
Tell me, have you ever fought to get an achievement?

EDIT: I've just written it "just for fun", why this can't be a good reason, people doesn't play a game because they will gain money or something, they play games JUST FOR FUN.
Thanks for simplifying what I was trying to say :)
Last edited by HugoBDesigner on 29 Mar 2014, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.

Camewel
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:48

Jorichi wrote:
Camewel wrote:all your arguments work for "no more puzzles" so clearly your arguments are dumb sorry
some of them don't make sense but to be fair some of the originals didn't make sense
I don't get it. At all.
Are you saying that an achievement is equal to a puzzle? Because it isn't and I assumed you knew that...
jorichi, please
I thought you'd get the satire
I was showing that all of your points work against puzzles just as much as against achievements
obviously puzzles are great and everyone loves them, so the points surely can't be valid
"the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity" is the dictionary definition of satire
Jorichi wrote:An achievement is a verification of a milestone. This can be anything. When put to good use it would blow new life into a game.
so they're good??
Jorichi wrote:But in this case (mappacks) it will end up in mind-numbing achievements like "kill 1337 goomba's with koopa shells" and other things like that which wouldn't really add experience.
what is the difference? are you honestly saying that everyone who makes mappacks is dumb and can't use the system?
Jorichi wrote:And if you want achievements that really do feel like achieving something you'd have to go pretty far out of your way into coding that in. It's simply not worth it, especially if you want them to be customizable to every mappack.
animation system thanks
Jorichi wrote:And I'd be more up for something that would allow mapmakers to create unlockable characters upon clearing the mappack or something similar.
like... say... achievements? it'd be super easy to add a reward to an achievement
Jorichi wrote:
HugoBDesigner wrote:If Achievements weren't useful/fun, games wouldn't have them at all, right?
They got implemented for bragging rights. Bragging rights holds little value in Mari0. I'm saying I'd prefer to be given a reward in the form of a special experience within game. Tying them together would still seem like the achievements are excessive. It would still be a pop-up telling you the same thing. Basically telling you you unlocked a secret or saw an easter egg.
it lets you track how many you've got, if there are any left, etc. no-one's going to endlessly trawl over every level in the offchance they missed an easter egg but if the achievement says there's one in world 4, them completionists are going to actually know that there's something they missed. helps you feel you actually did everything instead of "oh I think that's everything??" each time you find something cool

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:58

...
Last edited by Qcode on 21 Oct 2021, 19:19, edited 2 times in total.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:58

Camewel wrote:
Jorichi wrote:But in this case (mappacks) it will end up in mind-numbing achievements like "kill 1337 goomba's with koopa shells" and other things like that which wouldn't really add experience.
what is the difference? are you honestly saying that everyone who makes mappacks is dumb and can't use the system?
No, he's not, it's just the default reaction to any suggestion for this game.

Camewel
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 19:59

Maurice: oh
Maurice: well
Maurice: no achievements
sorry guys the guegan has spoken

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TurretBot
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:00

what about earlier in the thread
Maurice wrote:No achievements.

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HansAgain
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:04

It's true, making achievements just for fun is a terrible idea.
[sarcasm]I won't do anything just for fun anyomre.
No more mappack, no more characters, no more pixel art, good bye, forums, i will be a grey guy now.[/sarcasm]
Then why do we need cheats in mari0? Why do we need custom colors? Why do we need custom tiles, backgrounds, foregrounds, sprites?
They just change the appearance of the mappack, but don't change anything of the playability.

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:15

What Hans said.
Also, it's up to mappack authors to decide whether or not they want achievements in their mappacks.
AND, if they add, it up to players to decide whether or not they want to complete them.

It's all a matter of what people want. So, why shouldn't it be added? Because people could make "kill 10 goombas with a single shell" achievements? Can't they make the same level of stupid content with mappacks, animated tiles or custom enemies?

Again (and again), it's not a matter of what people can do of bad, but what cool things good users can make with it...

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Jorichi
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:19

Camewel wrote: jorichi, please
I thought you'd get the satire
I was showing that all of your points work against puzzles just as much as against achievements
obviously puzzles are great and everyone loves them, so the points surely can't be valid
"the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity" is the dictionary definition of satire
Jorichi wrote:An achievement is a verification of a milestone. This can be anything. When put to good use it would blow new life into a game.
so they're good??
No, it's just a pop-up. You commented before you read the rest of the post.
Jorichi wrote:But in this case (mappacks) it will end up in mind-numbing achievements like "kill 1337 goomba's with koopa shells" and other things like that which wouldn't really add experience.
what is the difference? are you honestly saying that everyone who makes mappacks is dumb and can't use the system?
The effort for implementing complex and rewarding achievements isn't worth it. I'm actually giving the people credit here into having faith that they can be even more creative with the animation system and region detectors and what not. The game itself is perfectly capable of making something similar to achievements, like SauloFX said he's gonna do.
Jorichi wrote:And if you want achievements that really do feel like achieving something you'd have to go pretty far out of your way into coding that in. It's simply not worth it, especially if you want them to be customizable to every mappack.
animation system thanks
Ah, so you don't need achievements coded in? Okay. Use the region-trigger and dialog-boxes or something.
Jorichi wrote:And I'd be more up for something that would allow mapmakers to create unlockable characters upon clearing the mappack or something similar.
like... say... achievements? it'd be super easy to add a reward to an achievement
But the reward is the reward... What's so special about the achievement saying it's a reward?
Jorichi wrote:
HugoBDesigner wrote:If Achievements weren't useful/fun, games wouldn't have them at all, right?
They got implemented for bragging rights. Bragging rights holds little value in Mari0. I'm saying I'd prefer to be given a reward in the form of a special experience within game. Tying them together would still seem like the achievements are excessive. It would still be a pop-up telling you the same thing. Basically telling you you unlocked a secret or saw an easter egg.
it lets you track how many you've got, if there are any left, etc. no-one's going to endlessly trawl over every level in the offchance they missed an easter egg but if the achievement says there's one in world 4, them completionists are going to actually know that there's something they missed. helps you feel you actually did everything instead of "oh I think that's everything??" each time you find something cool
So you need a checklist? Really? Where is the fun of the hunt? It's still something the creator could do on his own though. (level-screen perhaps)
Look, I just don't see the value in the achievement ITSELF. The animation system can do it if you really want achievements in. If you need a checklist, be creative and use the level-screen or something or make a nice starting area of it.
Let's just put down the war-axes. My opinion sticks with the fact that that pop-up means nothing to me. Apparently it does to others. But something that simplistic just isn't worth to code in, especially if the game itself is already capable of replicating the thing.

Let's do a little test:
Open up Mari0 SE beta.
Select level editor and a map, any map.
Open up the menu with ESC.
Now hit Save on the bottom left of the main page and keep an eye on the top right corner.

How much more special did that make you feel then saving the map with out it?

What I'm trying to tell you with this is that the experience of the action itself is more worth it then the achievement pop-up. That's what achievements are to me, just a notice of what you just did... I simply value the action/experience so much more. My map is saved, that's what counts, not the pop-up or a reminder there of.

Camewel
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:20

guys if the gueganator says no then it's kind of good games
I mean you can make as many great points as you want, if he's not gonna add it, there's no point
Jorichi wrote:Let's do a little test:
Open up Mari0 SE beta.
Select level editor and a map, any map.
Open up the menu with ESC.
Now hit Save on the bottom left of the main page and keep an eye on the top right corner.

How much more special did that make you feel then saving the map with out it?
welcome to jorichi's strawman emporium
all the straw, all the men, all of the logical fallacies

Maurice
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:29

Achievement are a worthless sense of accomplishment that have no place in 8-bit style games.

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HugoBDesigner
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:32

Okay, Jorichi and Maurice, I respect your opinions. Any opinion, agreeing or not, is a valid opinion. But you're just missing a vital point: like me, other people liked the Achievements implementation. We can't discard that. It is more worth it having this feature in SE with several users using/liking it than not adding it for other several users. Even if you don't see the point, it doesn't means that other users don't either. I think this should be implemented because of the users that want it. And, as I said, if someone don't like it, he don't need to try them. That's the best point of Achievements, the reason of why so many games have them: they're totally optional. I think we all agree at this, right?

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:34

Jorichi wrote:And I'd be more up for something that would allow mapmakers to create unlockable characters upon clearing the mappack or something similar.
This could be a very cool feature.
Maybe an animation to unlock characters or something.
Then you could have them unlocked at certain points in the mappack.

Camewel
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:37

You can just make an achievement mod using the animation system, it helpfully interprets an action it doesn't recognise as "add 0 coins".

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Jorichi
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:39

Turret:
It was just an example. A metaphor. A different indication would work just as well.
If you don't get my point I'll leave for two weeks, and I'm very serious about that.

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TurretBot
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:40

Yeah I know that's why I removed it.

..."Add 0 coins."
I'm rich.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:42

Camewel wrote:You can just make an achievement mod using the animation system, it helpfully interprets an action it doesn't recognise as "add 0 coins".
A mod for achievements would be gold apparently. Get on it. STAT.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:45

Jorichi wrote: If you don't get my point I'll leave for two weeks, and I'm very serious about that.
It would be worthless as it won't add or remove anything to our experience in the forums.

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Jorichi
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:45

Hans1998 wrote:
Jorichi wrote: If you don't get my point I'll leave for two weeks, and I'm very serious about that.
It would be worthless as it won't add or remove anything to our experience in the forums.
Achievement unlocked: Getting the joke.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:49

Okay, my last try here: Why not just add it, because lots of users like the idea? I mean, not everyone likes it, but since it is 100% optional, it won't make the users that don't like them stop playing or not like playing. If this gets added, a lot of users would like it and use it. People that don't like don't need to use them. Isn't this enough to get added? Since there will be people that will use it (and therefore not an useless feature)?

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:51

Hugo stop

Maurice
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:52

It's work, it's not 100% optional because the presence of achievements is already a thing, it doesn't doesn't have any place in an 8 bit game, it's a sign of lack of imagination.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:54

HugoBDesigner wrote:Okay, my last try here: Why not just add it, because lots of users like the idea? I mean, not everyone likes it, but since it is 100% optional, it won't make the users that don't like them stop playing or not like playing. If this gets added, a lot of users would like it and use it. People that don't like don't need to use them. Isn't this enough to get added? Since there will be people that will use it (and therefore not an useless feature)?
Situations like this have happened before, sorry hugo.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:56

I think Maurice won't add it because it's a lot of work.
Then, I don't know why he made Mari0, it would be pretty funny, but it's a lot of work.
It's not necessary to make a lot of work, Maurice, you can simply stop updating it, so you don't have to suffer because of this.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:57

HugoBDesigner wrote:Okay, my last try here: Why not just add it, because lots of users like the idea? I mean, not everyone likes it, but since it is 100% optional, it won't make the users that don't like them stop playing or not like playing. If this gets added, a lot of users would like it and use it. People that don't like don't need to use them. Isn't this enough to get added? Since there will be people that will use it (and therefore not an useless feature)?
I think it's not worth the effort.
Sure he could add a simple achievement system with 5 achievements or so but if you want customizable achievements and all that jazz that'll take a lot more time to make.

Feature Maurice doesn't want to add + Will take a lot of time to make = bad

Maurice
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 20:58

Hans1998 wrote:I think Maurice won't add it because it's a lot of work.
Then, I don't know why he made Mari0, it would be pretty funny, but it's a lot of work.
It's not necessary to make a lot of work, Maurice, you can simply stop updating it, so you don't have to suffer because of this.
I can also continue to ignore suggestions that I don't like, something that made Mari0 into a pretty successful game.

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 21:00

Maurice wrote:
Hans1998 wrote:I think Maurice won't add it because it's a lot of work.
Then, I don't know why he made Mari0, it would be pretty funny, but it's a lot of work.
It's not necessary to make a lot of work, Maurice, you can simply stop updating it, so you don't have to suffer because of this.
I can also continue to ignore suggestions that I don't like, something that made Mari0 into a pretty successful game.
mari0 is a successful game because it's a very good SMB clone with solid portal aspects added and an okay level editor, not because it doesn't have achievements, don't be silly

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 21:00

Not really. I know what you mean, Hans, but it doesn't have to be so hard to add. Make it simple, re-use some features of Mari0 SE. I made it possible in my mod by using "overlaydata" commands (images and texts) and savable/loadable variables. I'm not as good as Maurice with coding, but I found it really easy to add. Anyway, if it doesn't gets added, it's okay. It was just a suggestion, anyway...

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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 21:01

Camewel wrote:mari0 is a successful game because it's a very good SMB clone with solid portal aspects added and an okay level editor, not because it doesn't have achievements, don't be silly
Yes that's exactly what I was implying.

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HansAgain
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Post » 29 Mar 2014, 21:03

Welp, that was my last bullet, i give up.
I don't hate you, i will respect your opinion.
It took more than 1 page to stop this madness o.O

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