A0zora (To be recreated)

Mapping related threads and questions go in here!
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maidenTREE
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Post » 28 Mar 2013, 16:27

I know why SE isn't going to be released. 1: The online multiplayer is not done yet. 2: People kept making posts about it.

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 28 Mar 2013, 20:19

Turtley3 wrote:I know why SE isn't going to be released. 1: The online multiplayer is not done yet. 2: People kept making posts about it.
That, and all the other suggestions people keep piling on Maurice

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renhoek
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Post » 29 Mar 2013, 02:25

TheJonyMyster wrote:
Turtley3 wrote:I know why SE isn't going to be released. 1: The online multiplayer is not done yet. 2: People kept making posts about it.
That, and all the other suggestions people keep piling on Maurice
Maurice can deny and accept any suggestion,
both of you stop being stupid.

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 29 Mar 2013, 06:58

Impossible!
Alright I'll stop. How about you, turtley, will you stop?

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maidenTREE
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Post » 30 Mar 2013, 21:13

Okay. I want to stop and play NSMB2.

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maidenTREE
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Post » 31 Mar 2013, 05:39

Who knows? You can also add Tetris Theme to it!

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 31 Mar 2013, 06:36

Turtley, I highly recommend that you use this button right here:
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It's at the top right of your post.

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maidenTREE
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Post » 31 Mar 2013, 06:42

Johnny, I know that. Now the forums are not filled up with people.

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 31 Mar 2013, 06:48

Turtley3 wrote:Johnny
Jony. My real name is Jonathan.
Not Jonnathan, Johnathan, or Johnnathan,
but Jonathan.
(I have to explain that a lot)

Also, try playing some forum games.
There are a lot to spend time on.

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 06 Apr 2013, 18:29

The other night I was thinking about the level order A0zora would go through so I could follow up on idiot's criticism regarding inconsistent level themes. I have a feeling I'm better at standard platforming levels than the puzzle-based Portal levels...

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 21 Apr 2013, 19:16

Hey everyone. Yea I know that I'm not much into Mari0 these days since my interest in it has been killed off, but I was thinking about what I was going to do with A0zora last night, and here's what I thought up:

*As expected, the current version of A0zora has been retired, because A. a lot of the levels were designed as preps for Special Edition, thus doomed to be unfinished and B. I couldn't really think of any good stage design ideas otherwise. The demos were released because I'm sure half of you know of that mappack that shall not be named.
*I am planning to exclude Portal-based rooms from this map pack; however portals and Portal-based entities will still be present in the map pack to increase the possible variety in level design.
*Target level width for each level will 200-300 tiles wide. This includes sub levels. With vertically-scrolling levels, the level height for each level will vary, but they won't be out-of-control values as the original widths.
*This new version of A0zora will be more focused on being a collaborative effort with level and background concepts allowed to be donated to yours truly, to make sure I create the levels without any of the problems mentioned by Idiot.
*The mod will still sport the same graphical changes, but the music and sound effects will not be edited by the mod. What I'll probably end up doing is re-rip the SMB1 music and sound effects so they're more accurate to the source (mainly with the castle and 1up chimes) than what Maurice ripped originally (unless he fixed them afterwards).
*The tiles I will be using are the same ones form the original A0zora but with slight improvements, as well as 8-bit styled tiles for any new tile property that makes it in.

There's probably more, but until then, those are my two cents.

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Smear-Gel
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Post » 25 Apr 2013, 16:55

Best of luck man. I do lie your levels.

Although I dont usually make a set level width and more make it based on what the level is trying to do. That's a heads up.

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 26 Apr 2013, 02:14

Good strategy.

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TurretBot
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Post » 26 Apr 2013, 02:48

Smear-Gel wrote:Best of luck man. I do like your levels.

Although I don't usually make a set level width and I try to do this more: Make it based on what the level is trying to do. That's a heads up.
I auto-set the width to 200 and adjust as necessary when needed. Level width is annoying. >_<
Last edited by TurretBot on 26 Apr 2013, 05:02, edited 1 time in total.

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BobTheLawyer
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Post » 26 Apr 2013, 03:03

Sašo wrote:If I see another post correcting someone's grammar or what freaking ever in here I swear someone will regret it.

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TurretBot
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Post » 26 Apr 2013, 05:03

BobTheLawyer wrote:
Sašo wrote:If I see another post correcting someone's grammar or what freaking ever in here I swear someone will regret it.
This is not the same thread.

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BobTheLawyer
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Post » 28 Apr 2013, 15:07

He never said thread.
I'm taking it to mean Forum (SY Forums)

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Smear-Gel
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Post » 29 Apr 2013, 17:35

Turret Opera wrote:
Smear-Gel wrote:Best of luck man. I do like your levels.

Although I don't usually make a set level width and I try to do this more: Make it based on what the level is trying to do. That's a heads up.
I auto-set the width to 200 and adjust as necessary when needed. Level width is annoying. >_<
Being a grammar nazi is neither funny nor smart. It's just obnoxious, annoying and pointless. I know what I meant and you know what I meant. Grammar mistakes exist and everyone makes them. And they fill up threads with useless replies.
Superjustinbros wrote:Good strategy.
Thanks. A significant thing about my map making is that a lot is planned and a lot is on the spot. Finding the balance between that is what I attempt to do. But I have felt less motivated to do stuff these days as well. Mainly because of the general lack of feedback in the forums.

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BobTheLawyer
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Post » 30 Apr 2013, 01:35

Smear-Gel wrote:But I have felt less motivated to do stuff these days as well. Mainly because of the general lack of feedback in the forums.
I've gotten that feeling too...
No point in making mods anymore...

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 19 May 2013, 06:15

So guys, when A0zora gets it's well-deserved reboot, what kind of features would you like to see? As before this version will be a bit more comuntity-based than the original incarnation.

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Automatik
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Post » 19 May 2013, 08:07

8 worlds full of varied, originals, both Mario and Portal style levels.
Original and good world themes.
Easter eggs.
Custom ennemies, more than an reskin of a vanilla ennemy.(Even small things like changing speed)

Camewel
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Post » 19 May 2013, 11:49

Something better than 0'brothers, as you seem to be very confident you can make that.

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BobTheLawyer
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Post » 19 May 2013, 14:49

Mari0 levels

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Automatik
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Post » 19 May 2013, 15:01

BobTheLawyer wrote:Mari0 levels
Nah, why would he even do that?

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TurretBot
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Post » 21 May 2013, 22:54

Shell Puzzles
Scenery Porn
Levels Design Similar To Baf's
Shell Puzzles
Graphics
Calming, Amazing, Retro Music
Shell Puzzles
Popularity
Shell Puzzles
Special Edition Remake
Thread That Includes My First Post
Shell Puzzles
No Replacement For The Player Character
Cool Reskins For Every Entity
Shell Puzzles
Stunning Tiles And Backgrounds
Shell Puzzles
Over-The-Top File Size
Shell Puzzles
Mention On Stabyourself Blog
Shell Puzzles
Shell Puzzles
Shell Puzzles

(I had to.)

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maidenTREE
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Post » 21 May 2013, 22:55

Turret Opera wrote: Scenery Porn
You are gross. <:P

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 21 May 2013, 23:41

Turret Opera wrote:Shell Puzzles
Scenery Porn
Levels Design Similar To Baf's
Shell Puzzles
Graphics
Calming, Amazing, Retro Music
Shell Puzzles
Popularity
Shell Puzzles
Special Edition Remake
Thread That Includes My First Post
Shell Puzzles
No Replacement For The Player Character
Cool Reskins For Every Entity
Shell Puzzles
Stunning Tiles And Backgrounds
Shell Puzzles
Over-The-Top File Size
Shell Puzzles
Mention On Stabyourself Blog
Shell Puzzles
Shell Puzzles
Shell Puzzles

(I had to.)
When I get back into the Mari0 swing, consider that challenge accepted.
Image
it would be a separate project from A0zora, however.
Don't forget over-the-top jumps and lack of reset pipes in some areas forcing death. :3

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 26 May 2013, 20:04

About the easter egg suggestion, I am planning on incorporating treasure rooms alike Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 where you can find an easter egg in the form of a hidden item.

Here's a demonstration mappack.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5pjms ... reDemo.zip

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TurretBot
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Post » 27 May 2013, 00:18

Lol I think I might put that into "What not to make"
But seriously
Whenever I get to one of the secrets (never) I always feel disappointed because I can't collect it
Also sorry about the second subroom guys

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 27 May 2013, 02:04

Turret Opera wrote:Lol I think I might put that into "What not to make"
But seriously
Whenever I get to one of the secrets (never) I always feel disappointed because I can't collect it
Also sorry about the second subroom guys
If I had any form of modding skills believe me, I would've made the treasures collectable entities. They'd behave identically to the Hudson Bee from SMBS whereas once released from their block, they sit still until you collect them.

Yea I know I made the second subroom a shell puzzle. Though it's not really as hard as some of the stuff Baf put out since there's no cryptic direction the shell has to be launched in and no way really to screw up reaching the shell, or having to save it for a later use.

ucenna
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Post » 27 May 2013, 02:12

My star entity from the hub world mod thing I made, is a collectible. With a few modifications it would probably work great with this.

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idiot9.0
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Post » 27 May 2013, 02:23

Superjustinbros wrote:Yea I know I made the second subroom a shell puzzle. Though it's not really as hard as some of the stuff Baf put out since there's no cryptic direction the shell has to be launched in and no way really to screw up reaching the shell, or having to save it for a later use.
Okay, what is with you and the shell puzzles? What's so wrong with them? And seriously, why do you keep bashing Baf?

So what if he used a lot of shell puzzles. They were good! No hints to tell you where to shoot the shell? Official NES games have done much worse than just leave you in the dark with their puzzles. It's hard? THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FUN! It's freaking challenging without being too unfair! It mimics NES difficulty!
Meanwhile your mappack was so bad I had to actually suffer playing through it to give it a review. iirc All the 'good' points of A0zora that you praised were all the parts that I despised the most.

O'brothers is great, and Baf has talent. That's why his mappack was featured on SYS's blog. That's why he's part of ExplodingRabbit's staff for their first official game. That's far more than what I can say for you. At your current rate, A0zora's far from reaching O'brothers status, and you're far from reaching Baf's talent. Instead of constantly bitching about one of the best mappacks out there, make your damn mappack.

Get over it.
Last edited by idiot9.0 on 27 May 2013, 02:50, edited 3 times in total.

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TurretBot
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Post » 27 May 2013, 02:28

Superjustinbros wrote:
Turret Opera wrote:Lol I think I might put that into "What not to make"
But seriously
Whenever I get to one of the secrets (never) I always feel disappointed because I can't collect it
Also sorry about the second subroom guys
If I had any form of modding skills believe me, I would've made the treasures collectable entities. They'd behave identically to the Hudson Bee from SMBS whereas once released from their block, they sit still until you collect them.

Yea I know I made the second subroom a shell puzzle. Though it's not really as hard as some of the stuff Baf put out since there's no cryptic direction the shell has to be launched in and no way really to screw up reaching the shell, or having to save it for a later use.
Oh no I know you would I'm just saying

Objection! That darn koopa kept walking off the screen =P
Also it's my fault D=

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Smear-Gel
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Post » 28 May 2013, 00:24

Oh dear this took a turn for the worst. I'll just say that we should focus less on disliking other things and focus on making our own things the best they can be and leave it there.

As for suggestions, try something unique and interesting that will offer a new way to approach making the level.

Those tubes from Wee need to go deeper you thought about is a great example. I cant get enough of those.

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 28 May 2013, 07:24

The mappack is not cancelled entirely, I was perhaps too focused on preparing for Special Edition's new features that it sort of led to many rooms becoming more incomplete. So that's why I felt it would be best to reboot the mappack only after SE gets done so there aren't sixty million demo builds.
I think I'll try to add some non-Mario custom tiles to allow for some creative concepts along with the standard SMB1/2J tiles in the millions of colors. However I'll still be building them off the four-color limit of the NES/Famicom.

A few more fun facts about the abandoned build: The second half of 3-4 was based on Area 3 from Extra Mario Bros, 5-1 was designed after the SMB hack "Love and Star", the various mushroom puzzles in 5-4 were styled after Kamikaze Mario, before that I originally intended to make 5-4 a run across the rooftops alike Lupin III, 6-2 was based on the Egypt level in Pocket Zaurus, and 7-3's gimmick of going under and overground constantly was originally from Tetsuwan Atom.

Edit: So I got an idea, since a lot of the suggestions I made eons ago were pretty much unnecessary, I want to edit the entities sheet and see how much crazy stuff I actually suggested, plus a few enemy concepts I have for custom enemies in SE (and I will say yes, some of the featured enemies will be from 2J, SMBS, and the numerous hacks I have on board my hard drive).

2nd Edit: One example of an enemy: Smoking Goomba (based on the Fumajime Pyokorin from Rompers).
Image

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 31 May 2013, 05:50

Okay guys, I was told by idiot via PM that A0zora didn't spread out the whole "Japanese utopia" message enough, so I've decided to build a brand new tile set from various Japanese-only Famicom games which along with a few SMB sprites will be used to make new levels. The themes won't be fully identical to the current version of A0zora, and I won't be waiting till SE to release to make it.

As I've shown in the Tileset Respositorium, I already ripped Takeshi's Challenge. More of what I can gather will come soon.

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maidenTREE
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Post » 03 Jun 2013, 21:27

Superjustinbros wrote:The mappack is not cancelled entirely, I was perhaps too focused on preparing for Special Edition's new features that it sort of led to many rooms becoming more incomplete. So that's why I felt it would be best to reboot the mappack only after SE gets done so there aren't sixty million demo builds.
I think I'll try to add some non-Mario custom tiles to allow for some creative concepts along with the standard SMB1/2J tiles in the millions of colors. However I'll still be building them off the four-color limit of the NES/Famicom.

A few more fun facts about the abandoned build: The second half of 3-4 was based on Area 3 from Extra Mario Bros, 5-1 was designed after the SMB hack "Love and Star", the various mushroom puzzles in 5-4 were styled after Kamikaze Mario, before that I originally intended to make 5-4 a run across the rooftops alike Lupin III, 6-2 was based on the Egypt level in Pocket Zaurus, and 7-3's gimmick of going under and overground constantly was originally from Tetsuwan Atom.

Edit: So I got an idea, since a lot of the suggestions I made eons ago were pretty much unnecessary, I want to edit the entities sheet and see how much crazy stuff I actually suggested, plus a few enemy concepts I have for custom enemies in SE (and I will say yes, some of the featured enemies will be from 2J, SMBS, and the numerous hacks I have on board my hard drive).

2nd Edit: One example of an enemy: Smoking Goomba (based on the Fumajime Pyokorin from Rompers).


Isn't smoking bad for you?

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Qcode
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Post » 03 Jun 2013, 21:35

...
Last edited by Qcode on 21 Oct 2021, 17:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 04 Jun 2013, 03:34

Qcode wrote:Yes that's why he's putting as an enemy.
A0zora has been an anti-smoking campaign all along.
Hah, that actually gave me a bit of a chuckle.

If you went and looked up the source idea on StrategyWiki, you'd know what the blue "Smoking Goomba" would do, but incase you didn't; Smoking Goombas are identical to normal Goombas in speed, but after every few steps (the exact number is random each time) it pauses briefly to take a huff on it's cigarette, each huff spanning four in-game seconds (sometimes it may take a second huff, lasting eight in-game seconds). Can be considered either helpful or harmful based on the situation.

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 22:15

So I read Idiot's criticism again. Here's an abriged list of what to do for the build of A0zora for SE.
*No custom audio unless it doesn't replace default Mari0 music.
*Change appearance of the Compact Cube
*Implement rest of Aozora's animations

*Make level themes obvious to the player
*Don't swap themes mid level
*Do not publish demos/incomplete levels
*Do parallax backgrounds
*At least one to three puzzle room(s) in each world
*A way to reset and escape puzzle levels
*Increase level length as the level is built, not before
*Do not add additional rooms to completed levels unless they are bonus rooms.
*Avoid setting the timer to or over 1000 seconds
*Keep all level lengths under 300, not counting optional bonus rooms, usually 1 to 3 screens in width
*Avoid level breaking with Light Bridges
*Avoid frequent shell puzzles
*Avoid small-only or forced-hit areas
*Avoid glitch abuse
*Insert secrets
*Avoid Mushroom Puzzles from Kamikaze Mario
*No mazes
*Don't place stars near end of level
*Avoid making background too busy
*Keep number of enemies low
*Keep over world area open with lots of rooming space
*Keep a fair difficulty
Last edited by Superjustinbros on 21 Jun 2013, 00:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Sky
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 23:07

Superjustinbros wrote:So I read Idiot's criticism again. Here's an abriged list of what to do for the build of A0zora for SE.
May I add my own criticism?
*Make level themes obvious to the player
They were obvious to me...
*Don't swap themes mid level
Why not? It makes things interesting.
*Do not publish demos
Yes you should. It shows that you're still working on it, and it gives the rest of us something to do.
or incomplete levels
No you shouldn't. I suppose you could add them, but at least make them inaccessible during a normal playthrough.
*Do parallax backgrounds
You did...
*At least one to three puzzle room(s) in each world
Why?
*A way to reset and escape puzzle levels
Always.
*Increase level length as the level is built, not before
Protip: Just keep building on the level until you feel like it's enough for one playthrough. The level should be short enough that you can complete it in one good run, but long enough that it's a substantial part of the mappack.
*Do not add additional rooms to completed levels
Why not?
*Avoid setting the timer to or over 1000 seconds
Do it if you feel like the level needs that much time.
*Keep all level lengths under 300, not counting optional bonus rooms, usually 1 to 3 screens in width
...Sometimes this isn't long enough. Just eyeball it, you don't need a formula.
*Avoid level breaking with Light Bridges
I'm not sure what this means.
*Avoid frequent shell puzzles
You were already doing that.
(Why have them at all? There are plenty of alternative puzzle types.)
*Avoid small-only or forced-hit areas
But DO think about making some areas that are easier to navigate as Small Mario.
*Avoid glitch abuse
No kidding?
*Insert secrets
See above. And you already had a good number of them.
*Avoid Mushroom Puzzles from Kamikaze Mario
Okay, to be honest, those annoyed me to no end.
*No mazes
Yes mazes.
*Don't place stars near end of level
Why not? It's good for that last stretch.
*Avoid making background too busy
As long as I can tell which part of the screen is the level and which part of it is the background, I don't care how busy it is.
*Keep number of enemies low
Why? I say keep it a little higher than SMB.
*Keep over world area open with lots of rooming space
Not always... Depends on the biome.
*Keep a fair difficulty
Up the difficulty as you go. It's called a "difficulty curve," and oftentimes it's what makes games fun. It's what made Space Invaders a smash hit back in the day.


I was one of those people who actually liked A0zora, so I'm rather excited to see how you could top it. A lot of these just seem too nitpicky or obvious to me; it sounds like you're trying too hard to appease the masses rather than make a mappack. Just make what seems right; it doesn't have to be formulaic, it just has to work.

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 23:27

In other words, make an indie mappack.

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idiot9.0
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 23:34

I'm just going to copy-pasta my thoughts on my own criticism from the SuperJustinBros Mod thread:
idiot9.0 wrote:if a few people complain and/or have problems with it, then that's the problems of those people. In the end it's your mod (and your mappack, since this ties directly into A0zora) and you should make it however you want. Critique is great and all and in the end it helps you improve. But it's all your choice to listen to that critique. Some parts you may agree on and some you may not. In the end though you should only change parts that you want to change for the better, not just because "a few people complained".
Honestly Justin, your mappack wasn't bad. I just didn't have as much fun as others have had with it. I posted my thoughts on it in a manner I thought would benefit the everybody. However, my thoughts on it are just that: My thoughts. They aren't the written laws of mappacks.

These fine points are the only real ones I want you to work on:
  • -Make your levels a decent length. Not too long, and not too short. Shorter levels are okay though, just don't make a level require 1000+ time.
    -Make any levels included finishable. I'm not saying demos are bad. I encourage you to use them if you think it would benefit you. The only thing that needs to be done with this though is to make sure every level in the demo can be completed without having to use the level editor to access them.
    If you want to include unfinished levels for people to try, put them in a world that can't be accessed from the "Start Game" option.
    (i.e. main levels are for world 1-5 and unfinished ones in worlds 7-8, so they can't be accessed after a player finishes world 5.
    -Make any puzzles completable, be it a portal puzzle, block puzzle, maze, etc. Just make sure they can be done by the average player
Other than those key points, just make your mappack how you want. Make it as graphically intense as you feel, use whatever music + sfx you want, and just design it how you see fit. My criticism is there to help you improve, not as a guideline to how it should be. Honestly, you could just throw my criticism out the window, ignore everything I said, and add 500 shell puzzles to your map for all I care. Just make it how you want to, and as long as you're happy with it that's all that should matter.

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Smear-Gel
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Post » 24 Jun 2013, 00:32

One major problem people here have (and the reason I left the What Not to Make Mappack) is that they seem to believe there's only one way to make a map. Outside the fundamental stuff, you can do literally anything you want. There's no one method that has to be done, and trying to find some sort of method might be holding you back.

There are some things that might make things easier though like some stuff mentioned here.

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TurretBot
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Post » 24 Jun 2013, 01:01

Smear-Gel wrote:(and the reason I left the What Not to Make Mappack)
you don't need to bash on something if it's dead
Last edited by TurretBot on 25 Jun 2013, 22:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Superjustinbros
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Post » 25 Jun 2013, 22:21

Smear-Gel wrote:they seem to believe there's only one way to make a map.
Please explain.

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Smear-Gel
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Post » 26 Jun 2013, 04:49

Many people here seem to believe in rigid rules when making maps. They have to be this length, and done this way, and you have to use these themes etc etc.

Sometimes people stifle creativity here. I remember when people said to never have solid and unsolid tiles that look the same. Even though I've seen it implemented in great ways, and I've done it myself.

I'll use your list on what to do for your new map as an example:

"Don't place stars near end of level

Keep all level lengths under 300, not counting
optional bonus rooms, usually 1 to 3 screens in
width

Do not add additional rooms to completed levels"

In the immortal words of WiiWare, "Why?"

Don't tell yourself what you can and can't do.

Work on the objective criticism, and listen to the subjective criticism, but don't forget that it's subjective for a reason.

What you SHOULD do is this:

1)Do what you want to do and see if it works.

2)If it doesn't, make it work or try something else.

3)Repeat.

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Post » 26 Jun 2013, 04:54

But some people CAN'T see (metaphore) and that's why we made the rules in the first place.

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 26 Jun 2013, 04:55

What if there's only one level? I don't have to repeat!
Kidding, I agree.

Camewel
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Post » 26 Jun 2013, 13:29

Smear-Gel wrote:Many people here seem to believe in rigid rules when making maps.
They were never rules, they were simply guidelines. All of these were simply guidelines on what people know works for making a fun mappack.

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