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If Only Super Mario Bros 4 (Showcase)

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Cake
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Post » 19 Jun 2013, 01:19

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Okay, let me explain a little. See, have you ever noticed how unoriginal Nintendo's been becoming with the New Super Mario Bros line? How the games just keep becoming easier and easier? How the overly repeating themes just keep getting reprinted? Well, IOSMB4 is the project that me and another created to fill in for a unique, fun, and challenging game that has variety and creativity in it- something that's pure platforming and doesn't involve Balloon Baby Yoshis (not to mention that they don't grow up...) all over the place.

The spoiler right here explains more into my opinion of Nintendo.
Okay, okay. I don't hate Nintendo. In fact, I'm loving them right now for bringing Pikmin 3 (at last!) to me, but I'm disappointed in them with what they're doing with the most famous video game character in the world within the star series. My main complaints are these: difficulty and variety. The games never serve as a challenge to me anymore, as my first playthrough of NSMB2 left me with only 4 deaths in total. Sure, they're fun, but they just don't have that challenge charm anymore. As for the variety, I'm complaining about


The name, If Only SMB4, was chosen due to the fact that SMB4 was already created. Super Mario Bros 4: Super Mario World, as it was called, took up that name. However, if we were to name it Super Mario Bros 5, people would get confused even further. So the idea is this: If Only [such a game called] SMB4 [existed]. Don't get me wrong, I love Super Mario World. It's just that Nintendo was doing poorly with their subtitles back then- heck, there even was a Super Mario World 2. It was SMW2: Yoshi's Island.

Now that I'm past explaining why, let me tell you what the game is exactly comprised of. You tell me what's a good idea, what doesn't fit in, and what should be added- where we're at with our own site (http://ifonlysmb4.blogspot.com/) isn't enough for feedback. So I'm asking for your feedback on certain things, and I'm reading every single post that we get back- a game made up from 2 people can't always have the best of ideas, and it's nice to have a fresh perspective.

The worlds and levels that I designed- almost all 144 of them- are organized into 4 chapters, with 6 worlds each that comprise of anywhere between 4 and 7 levels. That does sound like a lot, even to me, but when broken down it can be much easier to manage. I'm handling the sprites and concepts (and perhaps music even), whereas the other member mentioned is tackling the coding. I've already written up a list of the levels, but it's only about 45% complete, so I should be getting to that soon. In any case, take a gander at even more blocks of text that I single-handedly created. Please try to only talk about chapter 1 or 3 so far, as it's the only two I've been really working at recently.
Chapter 1: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11PICNfxvhyijwtU6Yihwq1cbNheZ2RLSP9mJgZCPy0E/pub
Chapter 2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p5KSvKn0bS5VnvC9rsjgBxPDjn59tbUqPZxv-UWo-4c/pub
Chapter 3: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zaMjaJku-sqhW3ckpGluwcqjxUm6rP4ETmmfyCf6kbA/pub
Chapter 4: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n_lIfbdxxMgUYUgcXOjRxYdBO_Wr__rq85vkioIDDKs/pub
Try not to peg me on not filling in a description or something; try to imagine it all from the name, if there is one.


Just so you know, we're not looking to have someone else do coding and all that other stuff that we don't want to do- if so, rarely. We're just looking for opinions, and if you want, ideas. I'm not looking for silly answers or anything, as this is a real discussion that I want to participate in.
Last edited by Cake on 28 Jul 2013, 06:10, edited 2 times in total.

Qcode
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Post » 19 Jun 2013, 02:00

Huge goals for a first game. I'd advise against this being your first project, but I wish you luck anyways.

Cake
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Post » 19 Jun 2013, 02:17

Truth to be told, this won't exactly be the first game. There's going to be several projects in between of which eventually lead up to IOSMB4, of which I may show.

WillWare
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Post » 19 Jun 2013, 02:50

I came up with a bunch of unrelated opinions and requests.

Code: Select all

-During the first chapter, give ZERO indication that there is another chapter. Make it look like the adventure is coming to an end towards the end of chapter one, then hit 'em hard with the surprise that there are more chapters. It will take the players completely off guard. In fact, you might be able to get away with doing it again in chapter three.
-Make the chapter map look like the Kirby's Dream Land 3 map.
-Make each world map more like the traditional Mario layout.
-If the scale is greater than 1, please make it pixel-accurate. Nothing bugs me more than a game with "retro graphics" whose pixels don't line up. Make it look like it's being run through an emulator.
-On that note, please make the resolution similar to that of a SNES game.
-I do like how Yoshi is sort of the "easy mode" character; no insane powerups, but insanely powerful without them. Good call on that.
-I also like the powerup tier system.
-Please, oh please, don't use the flagpole.
-If there's a secret chapter, give no indication of it on the map screen.
-Hide secrets freaking EVERYWHERE. One thing the modern Mario games do right is in the hiding places of their secrets. Include more than one kind of collectable.
-Put one secret in a spot no one would dare to look. A secret so amazing that no one would ever find it unless they were crazy. Give it a good reward, too, something outside of the common collectables.
-One of my favorite parts of Super Mario World is the fact that there's a secret world hidden in its secret world. Do something like that if you can.
-Include the enemies from old games that have yet to be referenced again in a main game. Have you seen a Rex outside of SMW? Perhaps a Flurry outside of SMB2?
-Don't include the carrot if you're going to include any of the flying suits. Bunny Mario is just a watered-down flying suit.
-Make new level mechanics that aren't specific to one level. Blue Gel is a good example.


You've got the right ideas going for you. Keep it up, and make it happen. This'll turn out well only if you make it turn out well.

Cake
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Post » 19 Jun 2013, 03:54

Thank you so much for your opinion. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for. Of course, I do have other mental decisions and so on of which I should probably elaborate- just for clarification's sake. I'll list each response as you ordered them.
-Great idea. I do have the feeling that each chapter is it's own game in some sense, and I'll be elated to incorporate your suggestion.
-I've been wondering on how to approach the chapter map. I can't find more than one image of KDR3's map, but at least I have an image.
-My goal is to make an elaborate world map that's similar to SMW's map- otherwise, I can't really find any more meaning in your comment.
-That's the biggest part that I want to work on. Making it look, feel, and play like an old game is my goal.
-I'm still trying to work on figuring out how to make true SNES sprites. I've got the dimensions, the color limits, but not the colors themselves- I have found a image that contains all SNES colors, and I think I'll end up copying the color from that image onto the current sprite I'm creating.
-Thanks; in the end, Yoshi was meant for an easy mode.
-I find that the power-up tier system helps organize things a bit for everyone.
-The flagpole is an overused mechanic after all; I'm working on a new exit, but I can't find a place to start.
-I'll make sure it's enforced.
-Yeah, I especially liked how hidden some things were in Luigi's Mansion. I still swear that the original is one of the best Mario games ever. About the collectibles, (other than coins and points) I think I'll make them as to Comet Medals from SMG2, but not even spread out evenly throughout the levels to be even more deceiving. What I'm saying is that there should be 2 of those collectibles in one level, but in the next, there are none- and I'll be sure to conceal them heavily, and they'll have a good reward, too.
-Reading this, I think back to SMW's secret exit that was located past the goal gate, where you had to go under the mushroom and sacrifice your Yoshi to get up on the platform again, and end up behind the goal, only to find the secret exit. That was hard to find, and crazy to do... I'll find inspiration somewhere out there.
-That's what I'm actually doing. I dunno Star World's unlocking requirements, but I'm not going to even hint at them. Even further in is Dark Star Planet- I know, that's two worlds in a row relating to stars. However, that's the only world that I'm not making in the entire game, as the person that's co-developing this with me is making this world. Trust me, this world will be absolutely unexpected.
-Yeah, I loved those old guys. Nintendo abuses and overuses some elements, whereas enemies like Chargin' Chucks didn't even get mentioned after their big appearance.
Wow, you read in further than I had anticipated. Thanks for the ideas/suggestions!
-As of now, I'm kinda avoiding any flying suits. There is one called the Phoenix Feather (I couldn't come up with anything better that resembles a phoenix) that lets you glide at odd angles, although it's as pretty rare in general.
-I'm sure to do that. I actually found that as a problem with the first NSMB; they had many elements and enemies that only appeared in one level, absent from the rest of the series even.

Cake
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 06:30

Those changes should have been made by now within the level documents. Now that school's over and the stress of making it to Honors Algebra 2 is removed, I should be able to work on the game much easier now.
About those comet medals, I was just referring to the fact that there's only 1 per galaxy/level, and aren't as super common as Star Coins are. Trust me, they're not going to be a coin, medal, or some other lame form of currency. I do admit that I'll add in blue coins, but only for the intensive purposes of multiple coin values.
Still though, I kind of need ideas or somewhere to start from for both the level goal and special collectibles. I'll come up with them eventually, but it's good to have feedback or someone who isn't as completely as lost as I am.

WillWare
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 07:39

imaginary cake wrote:-Reading this, I think back to SMW's secret exit that was located past the goal gate, where you had to go under the mushroom and sacrifice your Yoshi to get up on the platform again, and end up behind the goal, only to find the secret exit. That was hard to find, and crazy to do... I'll find inspiration somewhere out there.

I keep reading about people who use Yoshi for that secret exit, but every time I see someone do it in person or in a video, they fly under it.

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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 11:47

This looks epic. Are there chances that there will be the Propeller Mushroom ? That's one of my favorite power-ups.

Cake
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Post » 20 Jun 2013, 20:47

I apologize, but the propeller mushroom itself won't be included. So far, we've come up with 5 unique power-ups that I'm sure you'll enjoy- the only returning one so far is the classic Fire Flower. There may be room for 1 or 2 more, and something simular to the propeller mushroom (minus the mushroom part) may be included. You're welcome to suggest any ideas, as that will greatly help the development of the new power-up.

WillWare wrote: I keep reading about people who use Yoshi for that secret exit, but every time I see someone do it in person or in a video, they fly under it.


I used Yoshi personally, as cruel as that is. The cape feather for me was always too hard to control... although now that I've found the "tutorial" in W2-1, I can fly though parts of some levels.
In any case, secrets that you don't expect the coding allows or simular will apear. The game's still in concept stage, with no specific levels dawn yet nor any coding finished. Secrets are a hard thing to include at this point, although specific instances (like some aforementioned secret exits) are partially shown.

Cake
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Post » 22 Jun 2013, 01:14

Does anyone know a good idea for something as to PM:TTYD's Crystal Stars, or M&L:PIT's Cobalt Shards? I'm looking for a creative, made-up series of objects that boost one's power or similar. Star Shards is something lame to be as the game's objective...

And yes, something as to Star Shards are necessary. Going through out of the way through 24 worlds doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do, so there has to be other things to do to build up to the game's main goal.

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Post » 22 Jun 2013, 01:30

At the end of the first "game", parallel bowser pops out and smashes the NES controller into pieces and you have to collect all the buttons.

HansAgain
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Post » 22 Jun 2013, 02:37

Just a suggestion to your blog, don't use white font with black background, it hurts my eyes.
And to the game, AWESOME!!!

Cake
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Post » 22 Jun 2013, 04:48

Camewel wrote:At the end of the first "game", parallel bowser pops out and smashes the NES controller into pieces and you have to collect all the buttons.


Although it's slightly difficult to understand what you exactly mean by parallel Bowser, the NES controller would be a great throwback. I don't know if it's exactly what I'm looking for, though...

I'm trying to find another background to change the site's layout, but my attempts so far have failed. I'm traveling over the summer, so it shouldn't necessarily be fixed (or even updated) within 2 weeks.

Thanks for the feedback!

Costinteo
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Post » 22 Jun 2013, 20:48

WillWare wrote:During the first chapter, give ZERO indication that there is another chapter. Make it look like the adventure is coming to an end towards the end of chapter one, then hit 'em hard with the surprise that there are more chapters. It will take the players completely off guard. In fact, you might be able to get away with doing it again in chapter three.


Sounds like what happened to me in Bioshock: Infinite; I felt near the ending a million times and it was getting pretty annoying to feel that. So if you do that, please don't overuse it. (I liked it the first 3-4 times, but then it just became really obnoxious)

I really like the idea. Especially the Chapters/Worlds ideas you came with.

Cake
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Post » 23 Jun 2013, 01:22

Thank you.

I don't know how or why someone would make it seem like the end of the game a million times anyway, but I'm working on rearranging some parts for a false ending in chapter 3. chapter 1 should be easier, though, so I don't necessarily have to worry about that yet. chapter 1's 99% complete concept-wise, I should be moving on to chapter 3 soon! (I'm skipping chapter 2 because I favor chapter 3's worlds more.)

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Post » 28 Jun 2013, 06:12

Have you played Mario Party DS? If you havn't, do so now. They have the concept that they are shrunk, and I think a world like... oh my god, mario 64 did this, plus mario bros u. never mind

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Post » 28 Jun 2013, 06:21

IMO, Mario party DS sucked, and the only good thing about it was the single player puzzle games it had. Also, the tiny mushroom doesn't count. Even if it did, you missed a lot of games. As for 64, they only did it for one level.

Cake
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Post » 09 Jul 2013, 06:18

I do realize that some worlds are "blown up", or rather that Mario may be "shrunk down" for some. I realized this awhile ago, and what did I decide to do about it? Ignore it.

Cake
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Post » 12 Jul 2013, 01:19

I'm almost done with the second portrait- another picture similar to the one above, but illustrating new environments.
Last edited by Cake on 13 Jul 2013, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.

Cake
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Post » 13 Jul 2013, 04:45

Image

Just 5 of the tiles I've created thus far.

Cake
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Post » 22 Jul 2013, 06:55

Edit: Stupid Post.
"Last chance to suggest for something that I should work on since I don't know what to work on"
Last edited by Cake on 03 May 2015, 09:32, edited 1 time in total.

idiot9.0
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Post » 22 Jul 2013, 07:02

Work on your game. Boom. Done. Get to work.

renhoek
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Post » 22 Jul 2013, 08:44

this thread's been popping up a lot recently in my unread posts so now that I've read through this... You're kidding right?

click here for rage
the first thing I don't like is that you act like a total nostalgia fag by summarizing nsmb (and ignoring every other game that came out afterwards) as being easy and not challenging at all and the originals are number 1 and anything past game cube era sucks. The worst part is this has nothing to do with the project yet for some reason you feel the need to write blogs about how nintendo's re using concepts right under a picture of a blob and cupcake enemy (creative seems to be thrown alot in this thing so I'll be focusing on that.)

second you say this project's going to be creative unlike the nsmb series but from what you've shown in that big image (I assume this is the world themes)
cake land - there was never a world named after food or a cake themed level in any mario game before (especially in mario galaxy 2)
The moon - not super mario land 2
tick tock clock - nothing like that level from sm64 with the same name
sky bound - a sky level omg this was never used before!
Water falls - a cave level... but with water see it's so different and hasn't been done in a mario game before!
utsobo's (what?) Belly - nothing like Yoob's belly in mario and luigi partners in time (didn't you say anything post game cube era?)
OverProductive factory - wow a level with the colours grey, black, and white so creative! And I bet this won't be the final world at all.
Beat box land looks interesting but it also looks like it could cause seisures and make it hard to see anything.
the only one that looks creative and good is Pinball casino

you say Nintendo's too busy making sequels to Nsmb, yet you're making a sequel yourself that's 5th (counting world) installment in a series of games (that's more than Nsmb, The game you're having a go at for having to many sequels).

and lastly you say you can do this as well as being better than smbx and at the same time have said you have no programing experience at all... Good luck making the player move right.


By the way what exactly do you mean by give you something to work on?

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Post » 22 Jul 2013, 15:04

About the rage, I don't think that black white and græy isn't creative. Sure, you meant something else, but I don't want anyone to misread that and think otherwise.

Cake
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Post » 28 Jul 2013, 06:04

*Table flip due to accidentally hitting back-page button on mouse that forced me to completely redo my elaborate post*

Ehem... click for hate response.
That's the first rage I've really received so far. I've been spending the week thinking about the rage when I realized:
Renhoek didn't read into the game much at all. All he saw was my drafted portrait (and a brief glimpse at the website and a quick read through the intro on my post there) that had 9 sections- and those sections fit the now-stereotyped 9 worlds. As for the cupcake enemy, I'm learning. Previously, I would edit the sprite pixel-by-pixel as it should be, in a (not as true as I hoped) 16-bit fashion. However, I couldn't find a way to expand the image and just posted a zoomed-in blurry picture of what I was trying to create. What I do now involves zooming in on the image, using the Print Screen function, and cropping it in Paint.

I haven't reviewed my main post for awhile, and I guess I may have hated all over DS and Wii games. And not explained at all that there's 27 worlds. Now, keep in mind that painting I drew was a draft version of which I drew some random levels. I've started to draw a second one which you can view over here: http://forum.stabyourself.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3345&p=75094#p75094 (You may have to do a little digging...)

I do realize that while I complain about NSMB's repeats, the list of familiar worlds goes on and on. Not only do all NSMB share the same areas, (although NSMBU did the best job of differentiation...) but games such as Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Mario and Luigi: Dream Team share the same boring levels.

About the SMG2 repeats, the Cake Land half-references dates both back and forwards to SMG and SM3DL. Not only that, but they've been scenery or stages for many Mario Party and Mario Kart games. From what I see, they want to desperately make a world based off of it but are afraid to do something that isn't regulated.
Image
Image

The Moon never was meant to be a repeat, but I did realize it was after a look at Paper Mario and the Thousand-Year Door and Super Mario Land 2. Looking at it again, there's only 2 levels that take place on the surface, of which, only 1 is reminiscent at all of past games. All the other levels take place underground, on a moon station, (I just realized that PMTYD had a moon station too... I'm not trying to copy here!) and on the trip to the moon.

As for Tick Tock Clock, I also plan to use Shy Guy's Toy Box and [Bowser in the] Dark World too. Again, they are repeats. But not for nostalgia reasons- sea, I had originally planned to make a clock, toy, and abyss worlds when I realized that each had already been made. I figured that a remixed repeat would be better than a clone with a differing name.

Skybound was an odd world that I started to really enjoy the concepts of. While the inspiration didn't start at the look-alike Overthere from SPM, this world is meant to have a floating forest, town, and temple. The main inspiration was Mayan civilizations in the sky- with overgrown temples and such awesomeness. Instead of drawing the temple level, (which would have been confusing with the name due to the background of the temple...) I portrayed a Jack and the Beanstalk-type level instead that would have explained how you got up there in the first place.

Water Falls was always an odd one for me, but it's hard to get rid of the world. See, it started out as a mining world with minecarts, dynamite, and so on. It then moved to a sewers world, except I noted that there's an area just like it in almost every Mario RPG. SMRPG, PM, PMTYD, M&L:PT, M&L:BIS are just to list a few. I then moved my thoughts onto a water-cave environment, although the final version will not be portrayed one. I didn't paint the one that I originally wanted to due to my lack of artistic skills with water. In any case, the real Water Falls world ranges from a full 360 waterfall that you must scale down to dark tunnels that have the water's gravity inverted.

Utsobo's name was just a modification of the Japanese pronunciation of Eel, regardless of what Utsobo really is. The name stuck, so deal with it.
As for the world part, that didn't come up until after we had designed Utsobo. Point is, we wanted to introduce a wale/dragon/lochness monster-type animal to be a giant boss that you had to fight. Then the idea arose that should you lose the fight, you had to go through the digestive track as a real punishment for losing a life. Because we want to make video game life difficult.

For Overproductive Mechatroop Factory, (Yes, we changed the name.) I do admit that it's a little low on inspiration and is a black-and-white version of Tick Tock Clock. However, I am aiming to change that. One more thing: You're wrong on it being the final world. It's actually the 1/4 game mark, or 7th world to be precise.

I actually painted the first level that we came up with for Beatbox Boombox. While the seizure warning is a good suggestion, the difficulty of sight is one of the main obstacles. I won't make it impossible, just hard as the NSMB series should have been all along.

Thank you for the complements of Pinball Casino. It's one of the 6 or so worlds that I made sure was set apart from any Mario game so far.

I never said that Nintendo's too busy making sequels. Technically, this would be the 6th installment in the series. There were 2 SMB2s- Doki Doki Panic and Lost Levels. In any case, sequels is something that I wasn't aiming at to complain for. It was the fact that they didn't do anything particularly special with the sequels that seriously bugged me- take NSMBW for example. 4 players is nice, but a greater world variety and difficulty would be nicer.

You don't know that I have no programming experience. I know many, many ways to work around problems and programming. I just need to learn Lua first in order to do so.

By sending me this hate, you got me thinking and gave me something to work on. Thank you for your time.
Last edited by Cake on 28 Jul 2013, 23:36, edited 1 time in total.

TheJonyMyster
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Post » 28 Jul 2013, 06:41

Image
That was beautiful or however I should react to that but it was good.

renhoek
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Post » 28 Jul 2013, 13:58

Sorry if I seemed a bit brutal I think I may have slightly let my inner fan boy go nuts (plus I was tired... I always seem to make the mistake posts when I'm tired),
I'll keep my eye on this project and who knows maybe it could beat smbx (don't set the bar to high for yourself though as you could set a development hell / writers block for yourself) I'll stop posting until I see some real development done on the game before I judge rather than bashing this on concepts alone.

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Post » 29 Jul 2013, 08:16

So I see more constructive criticism in this than not, so thanks. Though I would rather not have so much of it it helps a lot, even with concepts. If it can't appeal to somewhat of a regular majority, it needs either more explanation, or some variations. Cake brought up a new program recently, so I hope he can message me it at some point, I need this programming stuffs. So thanks Ren, and I hope to get that program soon Cake.


Hans1998 wrote:Just a suggestion to your blog, don't use white font with black background, it hurts my eyes.
And to the game, AWESOME!!!

Never commented on this... If no one knows, it is actually better for your computer monitor because it uses less pixels to display colors, and it should be better for your eyes to read, not worse... ESPECIALLY in the dark.

Cake
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Post » 29 Jul 2013, 18:20

I have no comment to the website design. After all, he's supposed to design it and I plainly post stuff.

I changed the website to fit something more Mario-themed.

http://ifonlysmb4.blogspot.com/

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Post » 24 Apr 2014, 18:30

imaginary cake wrote: There may be room for 1 or 2 more powerups

I have a couple of ideas.
Cosmic Star: Summon Cosmic Mario and control him. Regular mario will follow him exactly, going into a bubble if something goes wrong. Cosmic Mario is not invincible, but will go to small cosmic mario before dying. When he dies he vanishes and the player takes control of regular mario.
Ghost Mushroom: No, not the SMG boo shroom. This is an enemy as much as a powerup. It goes through a cycle of barely visible and completely there, and when you touch it when it's invisible it hurts you. When you touch it when it's visible, you powerup like with a regular mushroom, or you get to vanish once for a short amount of time. Things like goombas can't hurt you, but crushers can because you can't hide from a rock hurtling at your face. You're barely visible, but like the vanished ghost mushroom you're still visible..

Cosmic star has red eyes and looks like Cosmic Mario, except star shaped. Cosmic Mario would be able to open cosmic rifts which would suck things in, including regular mario, so you have to be careful.
Ghost shroom is like a regular mushroom but entirely white except for the eyes and mouth, which are boo-like.
Going vanished using the ghost mushroom would use the same button as throwing a fireball. Mario would have white skin while he was able to vanish, like the ghost mushroom.

Automatik
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Post » 24 Apr 2014, 19:51

victinistar wrote:
Hans1998 wrote:Just a suggestion to your blog, don't use white font with black background, it hurts my eyes.
And to the game, AWESOME!!!

Never commented on this... If no one knows, it is actually better for your computer monitor because it uses less pixels to display colors, and it should be better for your eyes to read, not worse... ESPECIALLY in the dark.

It used to be true, but now I don't think it matter. Though it's still better for the eyes.
And not explained at all that there's 27 worlds

Oh my god. That's a lot of levels. Are you sure you'll be able to pull it off?
You don't know that I have no programming experience. I know many, many ways to work around problems and programming. I just need to learn Lua first in order to do so.

Trust me, programming the actual game is the hardest part, and I think you should really start learning lua now.


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