FightYourself

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Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 01:03

So I made a topic about the fighting game based on Kiashi's art because you know why not I need a place to organise thoughts and recruit people to do things.
If you want to be involved post what you can do. Will need art/level design and music. Unlikely to need coders.

Apparently we need an IRC too.

The name is just a placeholder right now. I'd prefer if people picked their own movesets, and if someone doesn't want to be in the game then they won't be.

THE TEAM
Camewel - coding
idiot9.0 - some sprites for the characters and maybe the stages

THE POTENTIAL TEAM
Assasin-Kiashi - some sprites for the characters and maybe the stages
Jorichi - sprite something nice

Characters
Jorichi (self)
Trist (idiot9.0)
idiot9.0 (self)
Assasin-Kiashi (self)

Potential Characters
Bonko (???)
Legend_of_Kirby (???)

Spriting characters:
Character sprites will be done one limb at a time and animated using a program that I am yet to create but will create in the future. It will be linked here when it's made. The basic style of characters (for now) will be of a similar style to Assassin's promo art and they should be around 100*50 as average dimensions.
Here's an example (made by Kiashi)
Image
Last edited by Camewel on 22 Mar 2013, 16:28, edited 6 times in total.

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Qcode
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 01:07

...
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Legend_of_Kirby
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 01:54

Perfect! Here are my fighting sprites:Image
Idle: Image
Will make a moving as well.

Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 02:14

Those appear to be almost directly ripped from another game.
Also why would you have only one attack that's such a boring game.
Qcode wrote:Could I just be a useless powerup that gives you extra hats which do nothing?
Mode idea: everyone starts off with n hats. Damaging someone removes a hat, which then can be picked up by anyone. If you run out of hats, you die.

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Legend_of_Kirby
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 02:54

How many times do I have to explain this? After playing Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World, I loved the sprite so I went into my pixel animation maker and tried to copy it down pixel by pixel, Then changed it to look more like me in real life. I will make a special attack sprite, as well as moving.

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renhoek
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 03:48

what would be the average height of the fighters?

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idiot9.0
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 11:07

I'd be happy to do some sprites for the characters and maybe the stages.

Though we'll need to set some kind of standard design for characters. Aka max size, what kind of moves they'll all have, is there a limited color palette, etc.
Also we should require an original character from a person if they want to be in, so we don't see 34 Marios, 23 sonics, and 1 scott pilgrim in the roster.
(That might hinder people from using ponies too if we do put that into effect)

If this project falls through though we'll just make the game into a side scrolling beat-em-up.

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renhoek
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 12:06

idiot9.0 wrote:Also we should require an original character from a person if they want to be in
agreed
besides most people would just steal the sprites of some other web site
(I know not everyone would do this but a majority would.)

anyway I plan to make the stats for my character a soft hitter and poor defense but he can maneuver quickly and since he's small he's harder to hit.

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Assasin-Kiashi
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 12:48

idiot9.0 wrote:I'd be happy to do some sprites for the characters and maybe the stages.

Though we'll need to set some kind of standard design for characters. Aka max size, what kind of moves they'll all have, is there a limited color palette, etc.
Also we should require an original character from a person if they want to be in, so we don't see 34 Marios, 23 sonics, and 1 scott pilgrim in the roster.
(That might hinder people from using ponies too if we do put that into effect)

If this project falls through though we'll just make the game into a side scrolling beat-em-up.
I second this.

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Jorichi
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 13:06

I like the idea. Even if it just for a reason to sprite something nice.
But like idiot9.0 said, we'd need to have some standards to get people started. I also support the original character thing he mentioned.
Once there is a sprite size limit and a basic move set, I'll be happy to sprite a (my) character. Maybe someone can make a base or something.

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Assasin-Kiashi
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 13:17

Jorichi wrote:Maybe someone can make a base or something.
I think this is also a good idea, so that our non spriter members have something to help them out, and also we should try make a specific art style as well so that the sprites don't look like they're say from completely different games.

EDIT: tries to practice human lo-res (64x64) sprite, (preferable due to lower complexity to draw frames for) can't even make a fucKING CHARACTERS FACE?

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Jorichi
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 13:57

A good fighting game is balanced, so a base is a great idea. But some people might want to use a completely different character design, like Renhoek wants to use his sea-cucumber candy-man (sorry, don't know how else to explain it. No offense.). And I'm not against it in any way as long as things stay balanced.
Now, there are several ways of approach that I can come up with:
1. The base. Use it as a template for other people, forcing them to use the design. You could also make several bases to pick from. For example: Heavy guy, medium guy and small guy.
2. Make people explain their character as accurate as possible, together with their move-set and preferably a design. Then have a (team of) spriter(s) make them.
3. Give people all the freedom they want and then have a (team of) spriter(s) touch them up to fit the game's style.

I prefer nr.1 as it will be the easiest to work with. Better have some people fight it out about who makes the base or something... But having a base doesn't mean you have to stick to it. As long as it fits the game in general it should be fine... right?

Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 14:49

Okay, time to set some standards:
Your character must be ORIGINAL (yes, this means no ponies) for it to get in. Idiot and renhoek are good examples of this, as they both have fully original characters (and they've both posted in this thread). If your character is a Mario recolour, or a Kirby with a hat on, it's not going to get in.

People don't need to make their own sprites (but it would be preferred if everyone made their own moveset), so if you're awful at art but you have a rough sketch of what your character looks like, you can ask for help from another artist. All characters need to have the same basic style, but before any can be made we need to know what kind of animation we're doing.

The screen will move around as the fighters do, and bigger stages will have the camera zoomed further out, so character size is all relative. The animation style is something else that needs thinking about before anyone starts making any art too. There's two distinct options:
Each different image is a separate sprite, and you can just cycle through the images to animate them.
Each different limb is a separate sprite, and you animate the limbs individually. This way the animation is smoother at higher framerates, transitioning between animations looks better, items will be easier to integrate (instead of making sprites for each every player's animations with the each item, just make a sprite for the hand holding it and animate as usual).
The second method will mean you'll need to spend more time getting something that works in the short term, but less time in the long term.
idiot9.0 wrote:If this project falls through though we'll just make the game into a side scrolling beat-em-up.
Stabspace Emissary.

Everyone post ideas now go.


EDIT: Jorichi ninja
I think a base system with only 3 classes will get generic fast. I'd quite like to do something like 3 but have the person who made it keep it within the game's style. They post it, we critique it, they improve it. If someone can't draw, then 2 is the best.

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Automatik
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 16:06

If we ever need a color palette:Image

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Trist3D
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 16:59

AAAAAAGH.
I NEED.
MY COMPUTER. THIS LOOKS LIKE COOL IDEA. Caps aside, maybe each character could get an original stage?

Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 17:07

Automatik wrote:If we ever need a color palette:Image
I never really liked the idea of restricting colours for the sake of restricting colours.

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TheJonyMyster
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 18:02

Trist3D wrote:Maybe each character could get an original stage?
Not that camewel cares, but I think that's is a good idea.

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TheSeek
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 18:20

Camewel wrote:*wall of text*
What about what kind of moves the players should have? I mean...
6 buttons(3 punches + 3 kicks, each growing in strength, Street Fighter style)
4 buttons(same as above, except just 2 punches + 2 kicks, King of Fighters[or any other NeoGeo fighting game] style)
3 buttons(1 punch, 1 kick, special/weapon)
any other kind of configuration?

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TripleXero
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 18:32

Just a suggestion, but if there's like a stage by stage thing beating people as they get harder, the Stabyourself logo guy should be the final fight

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Legend_of_Kirby
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 18:39

Well, My Science fair project is going to take up most of my time, so if maybe someone could help finish some of my character sprites.

Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 18:59

TheSeek wrote:
Camewel wrote:*wall of text*
What about what kind of moves the players should have? I mean...
6 buttons(3 punches + 3 kicks, each growing in strength, Street Fighter style)
4 buttons(same as above, except just 2 punches + 2 kicks, King of Fighters[or any other NeoGeo fighting game] style)
3 buttons(1 punch, 1 kick, special/weapon)
any other kind of configuration?
Certain amounts of punches/kicks is a useless idea as some characters (hi renhoek) don't have and hands to punch with and it turns the whole thing into a stat war instead of having certain characters you like for certain moves.

Movesets should consist of some basic attack (just deal damage) and some special attacks. Basic attacks can be charged by holding down the attack button and special attacks have special effects.
(note, all theoretical and can change)

Really, I'm just waiting on artists to respond to this:
Each different image is a separate sprite, and you can just cycle through the images to animate them.
Each different limb is a separate sprite, and you animate the limbs individually. This way the animation is smoother at higher framerates, transitioning between animations looks better, items will be easier to integrate (instead of making sprites for each every player's animations with the each item, just make a sprite for the hand holding it and animate as usual).

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Turtle95
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 20:11

Camewel wrote:
TheSeek wrote:
Camewel wrote:*wall of text*
What about what kind of moves the players should have? I mean...
6 buttons(3 punches + 3 kicks, each growing in strength, Street Fighter style)
4 buttons(same as above, except just 2 punches + 2 kicks, King of Fighters[or any other NeoGeo fighting game] style)
3 buttons(1 punch, 1 kick, special/weapon)
any other kind of configuration?
Certain amounts of punches/kicks is a useless idea as some characters (hi renhoek) don't have and hands to punch with and it turns the whole thing into a stat war instead of having certain characters you like for certain moves.

Movesets should consist of some basic attack (just deal damage) and some special attacks. Basic attacks can be charged by holding down the attack button and special attacks have special effects.
(note, all theoretical and can change)

Really, I'm just waiting on artists to respond to this:
Each different image is a separate sprite, and you can just cycle through the images to animate them.
Each different limb is a separate sprite, and you animate the limbs individually. This way the animation is smoother at higher framerates, transitioning between animations looks better, items will be easier to integrate (instead of making sprites for each every player's animations with the each item, just make a sprite for the hand holding it and animate as usual).
Bad idea imo. You should do quads. Something like how Maurice did Mari0's animations. This will reduce the amount of coding you'll have to do (if you were to do it as "Each different limb is a separate sprite, and you animate the limbs individually")

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Automatik
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 20:17

That's what the first idea was.
But the second make smoother animations, while reducing the work for artists(Ok, I mean, the spriting part), so I'll vote for this one.

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TheSeek
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 20:41

Automatik wrote:That's what the first idea was.
But the second make smoother animations, while reducing the work for artists(Ok, I mean, the spriting part), so I'll vote for this one.
The second method smoothers animations if it's the coder making the animations from a single limb sprite, but the sprite maker has no control over the moves.
The first method make the sprite maker have more control over its character moves, and smoothness relies on the number of sprites, the amount of time each sprite is displayed, and sprite accuracy.

If what i said sounds out of place, then I didnt understand how Camewell intend to have the sprites and anmations work.

Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 21:39

TheSeek wrote:
Automatik wrote:That's what the first idea was.
But the second make smoother animations, while reducing the work for artists(Ok, I mean, the spriting part), so I'll vote for this one.
The second method smoothers animations if it's the coder making the animations from a single limb sprite, but the sprite maker has no control over the moves.
The first method make the sprite maker have more control over its character moves, and smoothness relies on the number of sprites, the amount of time each sprite is displayed, and sprite accuracy.

If what i said sounds out of place, then I didnt understand how Camewell intend to have the sprites and anmations work.
Yes, because it makes a whole lot of sense for me to make all the animations.
The person who makes the sprites will also make the animations, obviously.
Turtle95 wrote:Bad idea imo. You should do quads. Something like how Maurice did Mari0's animations. This will reduce the amount of coding you'll have to do (if you were to do it as "Each different limb is a separate sprite, and you animate the limbs individually")
It would also reduce the amount of coding I have to do if I just make them not animate at all. Obviously this is really stupid and an awful way to decide anything.
I'm not looking for the minimum amount of work needed to get it done, and if you are, you're an awful coder.

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idiot9.0
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 21:45

The amount of coding required shouldn't matter as long as Camewel, and any other coders who help if Camewel decides to have others help him on that front, is willing to put in the work.
Art style wise, though I'm more partial to the first method, I'm interested in how the second style is actually made and handled so I'm voting for the second style as well for now.

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Turtle95
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 21:47

I didn't mean minimal code like that. I was just saying it would be easier to do quads is all.

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TheSeek
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 22:01

Camewel wrote: Yes, because it makes a whole lot of sense for me to make all the animations.
The person who makes the sprites will also make the animations, obviously.
That was exactly my point: the only way the animations would be smoother is if the coder makes the animations, but as you said it wouldn't make much sense for you to make them, hence the sprite maker has to do the animations, therefore the smoothness relies on the number of sprites for each animation, the amount of time each sprite is displayed, and sprite accuracy.

So, with that said, what would be the difference for you, the coder, to have each different image as a separate sprite or each different limb as a separate sprite?

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Trist3D
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 22:03

If you make separate sprites for arms and legs and such...
You could rip people's limbs off.
Just sayin', that would be cool.

Camewel
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 22:56

TheSeek wrote:
Camewel wrote: Yes, because it makes a whole lot of sense for me to make all the animations.
The person who makes the sprites will also make the animations, obviously.
That was exactly my point: the only way the animations would be smoother is if the coder makes the animations
I'm going to stop you here because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
How on earth is it only going to be smoother if the coder makes the animations?

HAPPYFACES
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Post » 17 Mar 2013, 23:02

If images are separated and are animated and pieced together by code, there's a pretty good chance your animations can be a little more... Appealing.

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TheSeek
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 00:06

Camewel wrote: I'm going to stop you here because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
How on earth is it only going to be smoother if the coder makes the animations?
Maybe the thing i was wrong about is saying that would be the "only" way...but I'll try to make my point clearer.
Here, from 4:00 look at the white character idle and walking animation, they are animated from these not fixed and non-animated sprites by coding(notice i didnt take that game as example cuz lims are separated by the body, but cuz the base sprites have separate sprites for body and limbs).
Instead, these:
ImageImage
are made from fixed animated sprites.
In the first case the animation is made by the coder, and the smoothness depends on how the coder decide to make the sprite move on the screen.
In the second case the coder can change the speed of the animations, but the smoothness is limited to the number of frames, 14 for the idle one and 16 for the walking one, hence the smoothness relies in the sprite artist.
Now, even if the artist decide to make sprites with separate limbs, since you logically wont do the animations he'll also have to place each limb in a specific position for each frame of the animations, resulting in the second type of sprites.
So im just asking what would be the difference for you regarding the coding.

About me not knowing what im talking about...relatively yes, i dont know, that's why, being relatively ignorant about it, I'm asking to someone who knows.

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 00:22

The problem here is that you're so fixated on the idea of "frames" and that everything has a totally fixed framerate and all this nonsense and as such you've entirely overlooked the point.
Camewel wrote:smoother at higher framerates
If you have an animation that's made from a single spritesheet, cycling through the sprites one by one, then this has a locked framerate. If this framerate is 10fps, then at 60fps, the sprite is the same for 6 frames. If you slow down time for whatever reason, say half speed, the sprite is the same for 12 frames. This gets noticeable fast.

The way that individual limb animating will work is as such: each limb will have motions. Say, in the walk animation, the right foot will go forwards 20 pixels over the space of 0.5 seconds, then it will go backwards 20 pixels over the next 0.5 seconds. At 60fps, it's only moving .16 pixels per frame, but with AA, that will look like smooth motion. Obviously, just having the entire leg move backwards and forwards will look terrible but that's an animation problem and I'm just a coder.

(side note: I still don't see the difference between the artist making the animations and the coder making the animations)

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Trist3D
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 00:50

You should make sprites/get some other guy to make sprites and show yourself which to use.
(Also, since the idea was a fighting game based off of the promotional art, I'd just be a floating head and my attack would be hitting into the other guy, and that'd be the same with individual limbs or a full animation.)

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idiot9.0
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:03

Trist3D wrote:You should make sprites/get some other guy to make sprites and show yourself which to use.
(Also, since the idea was a fighting game based off of the promotional art, I'd just be a floating head and my attack would be hitting into the other guy, and that'd be the same with individual limbs or a full animation.)
The idea came from the promotional art but you don't have to be what you are in the art. (In some cases, they can't be.)
You can still be the little guy you had when you first joined, you don't have to be a disembodies floating head.
(Though just your head would be a cool idea. The green aura could be the part that attacks for you. I call spriting Trist if he doesn't want to.)

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Qcode
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:05

...
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Bonko
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:07

I'm a floating head too. I like it that way.
I'd be happy to help out in stuff besides coding and spriting.

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Trist3D
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:09

idiot9.0 wrote: Words
I wanna be a floating head, and go ahead and sprite me. It'd be better than I could do.

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:13

I think it's time to redirect the topic again.

If you want to be in, please post in this topic. If you don't want to be in, please post in this topic. If you don't post, I can't guarantee you'll be in, nor can I guarantee you won't be. Some people are obviously going to get in, but I'd still like them to post saying if they can do their art or not and ideas for movesets. There is no fixed cap on the amount of in-game characters we can have, and there's no fixed cap on the amount of people needed for each task. If 12 people all want to do music, we'll see what we can do.

EDIT: triple-ninja'd? Really?
Qcode wrote:Is this still just brainstorming?
Yes, actually.
Qcode wrote:Have you thought of using JSON so people could have custom fighters? It may become too hard depending on how complex you code the fighters, but it's still a possibility. People could possibly create attacks and such for their character, which can have a number of predetermined effects. (Stats like attack would have to be inside a reasonable limit).
I'd prefer for the fighters to be fixed so there's a standard. I'm not 100% sure what JSON does but if it allows people to write chunks of code for their character, there'll inevitably be glitch abuse. If it's just variable swapping then I might as well use a .txt.

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Trist3D
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:18

I want in.
Since we're going to be characters, do we put down attributes we want the characters to have?

Like my character would have the weakness of low defense, but the perk of being a floating head, therefore being really fast.

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:21

I guess, what with your character being just a floating head, he'd be light and get thrown around a lot.
Also, updated the OP with information on confirmed/potential team/characters.

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Trist3D
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:24

Special attack: eye lasers
So I'm a confirmed character?
HURRAH.

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:25

That is, if idiot actually goes through with spriting you.
And that's only gonna happen if we reach a consensus on spriting.
Say, how do you add one of those newfangled polls to a topic?

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Qcode
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:26

...
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Trist3D
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:27

Qcode wrote:I think there should be only one floating head.
Dibs.

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:27

The only options I get are to disable BBCode, something about parsing URLs and a notify function.

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idiot9.0
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:29

Just saying you can move me to confirmed characters being made, and also sprited by me as well.

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:31

Okay, I'll just make an executive decision that animations are being done a limb at a time.
Now I just need to make a program that you can create these animations in and we'll be away.

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Trist3D
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:34

Will there be intros? Like when the round starts and the announcer goes "Round 1, DUCK! I MEAN FIGHT!"

Camewel
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Post » 18 Mar 2013, 01:35

That is a design choice and those come much further down the road but it seems like a logical thing to have.

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